It's different for every song. You know, at different times in your life or even for a week or whatever you can look back and see that there's a particular tone to it. Just a shade or a color or whatever at that particular time in your life you might associate with something. And it could be the kind of food you ate or a television show or movie you saw. For me it's recurring melodies I have in my head. I wake up and I have a song in my head. Throughout the day the song morphs and I get another one. I might hear some stupid disco song on the radio and within ten minutes I'll have morphed it into something else. Writing string parts for it. I don't quit.
I don't work on it and I don't like to do it. But I'm happy that it happens when there comes a time for me to have ideas. Then I have plenty of ideas. But it drives me nuts. So I begin to associate these random melodies with certain times in my life. And they come back up and up, depending on whatever it is. It's almost as if music is kind of interpretative dancing to what's going in my life. It's just an interpretation of how I feel about things. And it's just expressed in music. I'm not that quick with words. That takes me a lot of time, because I like to try to find out what exactly the song is about that I've now got in my head or the melody that's just popped into my head. It's not something I work on, the melodies. They just come. And I have to figure out what they're about. And it's not always obvious. Sometimes it's the opposite of what it seems like they would be about. And at the end of the day the way the words sit inside the music is where it gets steered. You know, a really, really happy melody and a really not so happy lyric is steered in a way that gives a different tone. So the words come second. First of all it's my... kind of a lot of compulsion that happens throughout the day. Happens since I was a little kid and it always has. It's really rare that I don't wake up with some crap. And it's all crap. Not much of it is really good. But that's okay. I was twelve when I started to learn to play the piano. Then I could find the melodies on the piano. But until then I was stuck walking through a cafeteria line in school with the songs in my head.
BIGGEST PROBLEM
My biggest problem is finishing it. I take a song and I get it so far. And I'm happy with it. But it's almost never finished. I'm happy with it well before it's finished. The only reason you have to finish it, so you can put it on an album or play it at a show and it all works. And that's where the skill and the craft come in. Because it's moving me. I'm walking along. I can hear it. I can put the applause in it if I really need that in my head. It's all there. It's just that, you know, to the average person there's blanks. It might be two or three lines and then there's the part that needs to seal the deal. But I don't have that. But I know when I get it, it's going to be emotionally effective. 'Cause I can already feel the feeling that it's going to give me. But I don't have the part to put in there. I don't usually discover the feeling last. The feeling is there already. I'm trying to build something up. Just like you need to build a wall this tall with rocks and you had to find rocks and it has to be the right one, because some of them would be too tall or too short. It's a matter of piecing it in there so it gets exactly where you think it should go. So a song like Sentimental Guy; I had the important bits since... God, when I was... twenty years old. But the deal sealing part, the part that would make actually someone like the song, I knew that shit was there. So it took me a while to put that together.
I think what I do is, I talk a lot of shit; things that I can do by certain times, and that creates deadlines. 'Okay, I can have an album out by then.' And then pretty soon everyone is on the phone, on my back all the time, sending e-mails. That's the way I create my deadlines. And the deadline is what makes me finish the song. Not just that I work well under pressure, I don't work if I don't have it. I don't know how well I work under pressure, but if I don't have it I won't finish the song. I would never finish a single song. My first songs I finished where so that my band could play a gig and we'd have original songs. And than after that it was like, you know, we're making a tape or a record. After that I was making CD's, movie soundtracks, things I had to finish up. But I'm with them well before they're finished.
A song like 'The Luckiest' from 'Rockin The Suburbs' sat around for a while waiting for something to happen in the final verse. And literally it was years before an old couple that lived next door, the old man died and then the old lady had died a week later. Was just next door. Right to the left of our house in Adelaide, Australia. But I just thought that that was the way to finish a love song. Is that the old lady couldn't hang out for more than a week 'till she died too. And that happens so often. Then I thought: 'That's not cliché. I've heard that before. But that really sums the whole fucking thing up.' So, yeah, it's just looking for that bit. I was walking around and I was being moved by that part of the song in my head. I was like: 'Wow, that's awesome!' But I couldn't tell anybody that:
'I got a song and then it comes to the end and then it's sad.'
'Okay. Good. So what?'
YOU NEED TO KNOW THE TECHNIQUE
You know, songwriting then is a lot of - I think - a lot of patience and a lot of... I don't know if technique is the right word, but just craft. The craft is the part that brings it to people. And the learning of the craft is also the thing that throws most of the people right in the gutter. Because most people get obsessed when they're learning something. You know, you get obsessed with the techniques and the craft. Like photography, you can think about exposure and all kinds of shit for ages and just miss everything. You just walk around with what looks like one big fucking F-stop in your head and miss everything that's actually in front of you. Photographing everything you shouldn't photograph and missing everything that's actually happening. And that's the way it is with songs; you're aided by the technique if it's working for you. It's like the same with photography - you need the technique. You need to know it. But you don't need to walk around thinking about some system the way you have to shoot. And it's like that with the songs. I think all the basic techniques of compositions that Bach used and the Beatles used or Thelonious Monk or John Coltrane, without even knowing it, they're all similar. Like all those manic motives and sequencing and things you can explain with math and all those kind of things. They're really necessary to composition.
But the most important thing about songwriting is that it's something you can never teach anybody. It's just there. But then in order to get that feeling out, to make it work, you do need technique. And it can be anything. Technique is often something I use when I'm stuck. Because your inspiration got you so far. You got there, but you're stuck. And then I think, you know, it's all there. It's all in front of you. Every time it's right in front of you. Sometimes it's so obvious, you don't know it. But a lot of times it's taking - looking back on the song: 'Okay, what are my motifs?' Because there's stuff happening over and over again. And you can just simply turn the motif upside down. Or stretch it out, make it last twice as long. Or else make the motifs a part of something else that you did. You know, very rarely it's the answer when you get stuck to come up with something new. It's always to go back to what you've already done.
LOTS OF DIFFERENT STYLES IN ONE SONG
Yeah, we [Ben Folds Five] did a lot. I would think that most of the time, with lots of stuff going in and out like that, there is still a motific threat. Just because I can't really deal with it because of the space. It might seem like space to somebody and the threat's too thin to hold on to some people. You know, but it's there. Like most of the songs. I can think of some of them going all over the place. And I know there are motifs within them that will hold them together.
The bridge is the same way. The bridge is a natural thing. If you try to shake off pop... If I try to shake off form, a proper classic pop writing form. I'll always come back to it. I'll try to shake it off, because I like the world of possibilities. But you always come back to it. So you go: 'I don't need a bridge. That's fine. I'm gonna write a song without a bridge.' And you get through the song and then at some point a bridge starts happening. Just because you wanted one. You know, inside somewhere you wanted to go somewhere else. There are kind of like conventional sort of life reasons for the way things work with songs. I mean, A B A B and that kind of shit. There's something to it. It's like a joke. When you're telling a joke. Comedians have some rule about 'change it up on the third time' or something which works for them.
BACKGROUND VOCALS
I've always liked background vocals. Because they're cheap! If you want to hire strings... I can hear them as strings, violins, cellos, violas. But ultimately I've got three guys in the room and we can go to the mike and do it right now and I can hear it. And when we're doing a show we can do it. Or I could get real precious about it and start filling out union forms and bring in musicians. But then I can't repeat it live. So usually I go with the vocals because of that reason. And background vocals economically sit in with the lead vocals really well if you score them so that the lead vocal rests or holds notes that the background happen to be in harmony with. So suddenly you've got a three part background vocal section in and out of your melody. And that always happens to me. You can't do that with strings and horns, because they don't blend with the vocals the same way.
And that way you have less notes and it sounds like more. Because everyone keeps thinking like we will record the record... this happens every time, the musicians involved usually get nervous that they can't repeat it live. And I point out: 'No, there's only two parts.' Several of us sing it, but it's only two parts behind the lead vocals. But it sounds like more!
PLAYING BASS AND DRUMS
I have different ways to get into the process of making records. One of them is that I go in and play everything myself. You try different things out. Because that's inspiring to me. I'm like a nerd; I like to hear the sounds of the bass and drums so I can see what kind of thing I'm envisioning in the end. So when I'm writing this next song I can imagine the temper of the band and stuff. I don't play bass and drums that much. Every time I come back to it I play it differently. I've changed; I play differently. I like to know where I'm sitting. But nowadays I would rather hear other people play these instruments than me. I mean, I'm a good bassist or a good drummer and I could play for someone else. But I just like the chemistry of three or four people playing.
MELODIES
The melodies come first. They're just walking around. Just waking up in the morning. Once, a long time ago, I was really bored and poor and unemployed. And I lived in the top of this house. Basically in an attic with a bed and an electric piano was in there and a tape recorder. And I just decided: 'You know, when I wake up next morning now I'm gonna record that song, whatever's in my brain. Right as I wake up.' I did it for about a month. About thirty different songs, I recorded. But I forgot them! I just recorded them and left them on a cassette tape. And I never thought about them for about two years. And I went back, because it was time to make another album. That was when Ben Folds Five made their first record. It's called Ben Folds Five. After that I was like: 'Oh, shit! All my songs are gone! I don't have any more songs. I have to write some more songs.' So I went back and I found that tape. I figured these songs were going to suck, but they were all really good. That's 'Whatever And Ever Amen'. That album was made up by all the stuff I thought of first thing in the morning. And then I expanded on the songs and I finished them. You know, because I had a deadline.
And I could grab the feeling of those songs again, because it was inherent to the melody. There's a feeling inherent to every melody. A lot of people's problems that write songs is that the melodies don't mean anything. When I hear a song that's not really good usually the first problem is that the melody has no soul. Why would a melody have soul? It's just a group of notes. I have no idea. I never understood that, but I know a sincere melody that has heart came from something real when I hear it. And when it doesn't. But there's no rule. It's absolutely intangible. It's like the same reason one person likes another person. You know, a bad song is often a good melody that has the wrong lyrics. But usually I can get around that. It's when the melody doesn't mean anything, then I have a problem.
This kid gave me a demo tape last night. And I have to say they weren't the greatest songs and the playing was pretty dismal, but the melodies had a lot of soul. The melodies were really right. Really coming from the right place. The rest of that stuff he can improve. But he can never improve that. Someone either makes melodies that make sense to me or they don't. And this kid did. It was really, really good. Wicked melodies. Everything else was shocking.
DISAPPOINTMENT, DEFEAT & HUMILIATION
I don't know if there's something I could tell somebody. I always think that the last song... When I finish a song I always think that I'm not going to finish another one. As if it feels like: 'Goddamn, I can't do it again.' I just figure: 'Oh, that's it. I fucking pulled one over on everybody. I somehow squeezed this one out of my ass.' I just think I can't do it again. Every single time. But then I do. I don't know how. I can remember I felt that back when I was fourteen years old.
I really feel like it was a fluke every time I finish a song. And I feel like creativity, at least for me, is a very part-time thing. It doesn't always happen. I mean, I always have compulsive shitty songs going through my head. But it's like finding the art in it and the right time and the right one, choosing the right one. Same with the photography. You might take eight hundred photos. Well, that's great. One of them is great. Do you know which one it is? Because if you don't, you're a bad photographer. You know, you have to know which one is the right one. So it's a lot of choosing, a lot of pouring over. With photography it's a lot of pouring over your contact sheets to discover which one was the right one. Which one was the one that you meant. With music, I think, it's important to get al those bits out on the table in some form. So you can hear them. Listen to them. Whatever, write them down. And then it's time to be a really harsh editor and critic and cut out the stuff that doesn't mean anything.
But, like I said, I don't like finishing stuff. So that's my problem. I have a hard time finishing. But I would also say that it's a good thing to know as an aspiring songwriter or musician that you will face daily and constant disappointment, defeat and humiliation. That's part of the whole process of writing songs in this life. And especially getting them out and performing them as well, trying to find a home for them, you know. Because you can't finish the song if you're not finished. You have to get to somewhere. The song has to have a home.
A few times I've accomplished to write a song where everything fell into place. But there's a song that sticks out in my head every time someone asks me about songs, by Randy Newman, called 'Marie'. I think that's just... it all came together on that one. But there's a lot of songs where it all came together. It's not that unusual. But that song is just a notch above. It takes you to another level. It's a genius song. I think it's on the album 'Good Old Boys'.
INTIMATE SONGS
I don't mind, because as soon as I've written a song it feels like an institution that was already there. It doesn't feel like something that I made anymore. I don't actually... Once it's made, it's sealed. It's almost like: 'How did I do that? Did I do that? I didn't do that. That's not mine. Is that mine? That's not mine.' I don't really take credit for it in my head sometimes. Then that way I can separate myself from it. It's like: 'Oh, I'm just playing a standard. I'm playing a classic.'
But the best songs, the most universal songs, I found, have been the ones for the smallest audience. The one that's just for me or for just one person. For my family or some of my friends. The ones that are closest. The ones that are written for the smallest audience will always reach the most people. Because they can identify with it in the same way. If you're going to write something that is already distant from you, something that is already universal, I think you're bound to fail every time. But that's just for me, that's my gear. And I'm a pretty private person, which is strange since I write songs that aren't private at all. But I also figure that when you're writing that personal that other people will identify with it and that makes it their song too. It's like you're going to an alcoholics program and say: 'My name is Ben and I'm an alcoholic and I have a problem.' Well, the other people in the group feel the same way, because they're all alcoholics. They're not really concerned with the one person. It's not about you. It's about the combined experience. That's what songwriting is really about. You say 'I did this' or 'I did that' or 'I feel this or that'. Other people feel the same thing and it's not just you.
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Interviews
Ben Folds (engelstalig, uit 'Harten van helden')
Bruce Springsteen (niet van mij)
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